This is the discussion page for Kim Possible, the teenager. Improvements to the page for the Kim Possible TV series may be proposed on its Talk page.
Not sure I agree with the age estimate. Since Kim took driver's ed in her sophomore year, she would have needed to be 15. BluetoothThePirate 01:54, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Kim's age in season 4 is uncertain. I know many (especially decrying the mods's deletions on dA) like to say that because she graduated, she is 18. Fact is, since we don't know Kim birth date, and Graduation is in June, there is a 50-50 chance Kim is still 17 as the series finale credits rolled. With that 17-18 estimate, subtract three years (soph-senior), and her age is 14-15. In Colorado (fanon with supportable evidence) permits are handed out at 15 and 6 months, so chances are Kim's drivers' ed class at time of episode (you can take the class younger, just not behind the wheel) she was a junior.
- Actually, this isn't necessarily true.
- First, you can get your driver's permit in Colorado at the age of 15. And, most importantly, to even get that permit at 15 one must "complete an Affidavit of Completion of a Driver Education Classroom Course or Behind-the-Wheel Training (BTW)" before being allowed to receive the permit (per the Colorado DMV website). Therefore, the original contention that one cannot take driver's ed until after you are of age to receive your permit is not true.
- Simply because graduation is in June does not mean that there is a 50/50 chance that Kim was 17 during graduation. Since, the normal cutoff for deciding when a student is of age to start schooling is right around the beginning of August, then there is actually only about a 17% (or 1 out of 6) chance that she was 17 at the time of graduation, and given how many parents willingly hold younger students back it is likely even lower than that.
- Taking both of these into account it is actually most likely that a driver's eduction course would be taught to Freshman (who will be turning 15 during the school year) to allow them the maximum amount of time with their permits to accumulate their required driving necessary to obtain their next level of permit. However, since we know that Kim is a Sophomore in the first season we can discount that MHS offers it normally during the Freshman year and instead make the next most reasonable assumption that it is taught during the Sophomore year.
- None of this however, changes the fact that Kim was most likely 15-16 during the first season and 17-18 during the last season.
- Mknopp (talk)
- I am lost as to what you mean by two year difference when Sophomore to Senior is three, 15 to 17 includes 16. Sophomore to Senior includes Junior. So, depending on what you mean by difference in this regard depends on whether you are two or three apart. However, if you use that same definition on both then they will give you the same answer. To better see this, consider the grade number instead of the name, 10 to 12. Whatever math you do to 15 to 17 and 10 to 12 will give you the exact same number.
- Regarding the age range. Yeah, it would be better, so I will do that now.
Do you like the look of the space better than having it contiguous with the following header? Mknopp 13:22, April 12, 2012 (UTC)
Games are Non-Canon?
I noticed that this listed the games as 'non-canon' in the article. While I can see the Disney Parks/apperances in Lilo and Stich as Non-Canon, the games had a fairly consistent level of continuity, on par with the show's usual amount. (That is, continuity by accident.) I don't think the games are considered non-canon; a level of canon lower than the series when disputes come up? No arguements. Completely non-canon? I disagree with the statement. Luke Danger 20:24, April 13, 2012 (UTC)
The games may be "Official", but they are hardly any more canon than the L&S crossover. However, it has been suggested that a page for this kind of "Kim in other media" can be addressed.
Is it necessary to have so many images which are but moments apart from each other?
College or University student?
One of the edits I just undid included mention of Kim as a university student. This was not definitively stated in canon. She got acceptance letters from all over the world, but she never actually chose one. Also, as the show ended a day or so after a worldwide alien invasion complete with autonomous walking war machines indiscriminately destroying things, there is no assurance of how many institutions of higher learning survived unscathed or the level of damages incurred by each, if any.
- On a personal note, after that, were I sitting on the board of any such institutions or even the parent of a student, *I'd* pitch a strong campaign for revoking her acceptance(s). She may have helped saved the world several times over, but "when *aliens* come to Earth *solely* (which is how most the news reports and populace will pitch and see it) for one girl, do we *really* want her walking what's left of our hallowed halls? There are other places of Higher Learning in the world, surely she can go to one of them…." And of course I'd imagine the same conversation in nearly all of them.
Yeah, conjecture and my own personal head-fanon, but point still remains when she and Ron flew off into moon-set, she was not stated as a Student *anywhere*, and that's canon. Love Robin (talk) 22:19, December 26, 2012 (UTC)
- Agreed that it is definitely not canon that she is a university student.
- As for the head-fanon, well that would make sense in the real world, but doesn't really fit in the Disneyfied world of KP. After all, if KP were the real world she and her brothers and Ron would all have been yanked from their homes for child endangerment so fast that their heads would be spinning. Also, Drakken and Shego, and pretty much all of the rest of the villains, wouldn't have been stopped by a couple of teen vigilantes but a cruise missile or .50 cal bullet to the brain. And the list could go on and on.
- Simply put, while it is interesting to explore these scenarios in fanfiction and the comments section. As you said, they don't have a place on the wiki.
- Thanks for your help and the catch.
- Actually, there is canon proof that Kim goes to a University. I don't know if anyone here ever saw the personal blog put up by Steve Loter for fans to follow the making of KP season 4 but near the end of the blog he puts up storyboards for the alternative endings they were going to do. One of them includes Kim arriving at the university. See link here: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_OLvgeTwyESc/Rpm3D18x9cI/AAAAAAAAADc/8mp67p_34nI/s1600/ending.jpg KimPossibleMV (talk) 10:35, October 15, 2013 (UTC)
- P.S. It is also confirmed by Producer Steve Loter that Ron and Kim do end up going to the same college together. You can review transcripts from the conversation here: http://www.globaljusticealliance.com/board/showthread.php/235-RS-net-chat-with-Steve-Loter-during-the-Finale-questions-and-answers KimPossibleMV (talk) 11:14, October 15, 2013 (UTC)
- Sorry. For the purposes of this wiki, "Canon" is what is seen on screen. "Words of God" have no place here beyond Notes and Trivia sections. As for that "Alternative ending" it was no more than a storyboard image, so faaaaaar from canon, and not enough to say that Kim is a college or university student. Last we know from canon is she applied to a lot of places, and Ron was concerned she was going to be accepted all over the world. --Love Robin (talk) 20:30, October 15, 2013 (UTC)
- Actually, LR, that isn't exactly true. According the Manual of Style:
- Information obtained from the series creators (Mark McCorkle, Bob Schooley, Steve Loter, Chris Bailey etc.) will be considered canon as long as it fulfills two criteria.
- It is obtained from a legitimate first-hand and/or second-hand source.
- The information must not contradict information presented in the show itself. If it does then despite what the creators say it is not considered canon.
- Information obtained from the series creators (Mark McCorkle, Bob Schooley, Steve Loter, Chris Bailey etc.) will be considered canon as long as it fulfills two criteria.
- That being said, I don't think that the alternate scene should be counted as canon or even the "word of god". While it is shown on Loter's site, it was an alternate ending. In other words, it was an idea that the considered and then purposely chose to not include. I place it in the same arena as Kim being a blonde. It was an idea that they kicked around did some drawings for. Interesting trivia, but it isn't canon.
- PS: I think it is highly probable that they didn't go with the alternate ending because it basically points very strongly in the opposite direction of the preceding "word of god" that Kim and Ron go to the same college. The alternate ending is all about a forlorn Kim going off to college by herself. Whereas the real ending is about Kim and Ron going to the stars together.
- Just my thoughts on this.
This article is *unnecessarily" long. Most of which is re-stating detailed information when there are articles to cover such things (or need to be!!), and indeed there are already links to the various "main articles". For example, Kim's brothers are super intelligent, but most of that should be in their article cause all we need here is what Kim's relationship with them is like. namely, frustrating as she is often the target of their pranks, etc.
Pruning the redundant info will seriously reduce the length.
There should be a paragraph about this in the MoS; "tell only what is relevant to the needs of a current article and link to main subject articles where available for additional details, and consider making ones were needed."
- You are absolutely correct about the length of this article and the redundancy of information. It is also a major problem with Ron's page as well. The problem is that to clean it up will take a good amount of time, and, at least for me, at this point we are still tackling some much more basic structuring and information gathering problems. To be honest, I look at Kim and Ron's pages as good problems, at least when compared to pages for some characters that simply don't exist at all or consist of wholly inadequate amounts of information.
- As to the notation in the MoS. I agree and would like for you to make the suggestion in the forum page for changes to the MoS.
In Graduation, Part 1, it is clearly stated that Felix is the valedictorian. It also explains why Kim is giving the speech, as it was Felix that asked her to.
Felix: Ron, man!
Ron: Felix! How's our valedictorian?
Felix: Stayin' frosty, my man. I'm hoping Kim might say a few words at the big G.
Kim: What? Oh me?
Felix: Oh. come on! You're a rock star!
Kim: Oh, well. I guess.
This in itself has some major issues with reality, but this is MHS and KP.
Anywho... It is clearly stated in the show that Felix is the valedictorian, and the fact that Kim gives a speech isn't even proof that she was even salutatorian.
S'whut I get for editing while hungover. :P
- Not a problem, but I must say. New Year's parties must be a blast where you come from if you started already. ;)
Mknopp mentioned that he read somewhere that the original concept art for Kim was a "blonde bombshell". Should we include this into thext?
My vote is no unless a citation can be found and provided
Okay, I looked up the article. I was a little off on the exact details, but the jist is still the same.
[quote]She started out as a pretty standard-looking athletic blonde. It evolved; we just tried to make her more unique. I think one of the things that design-wise they pushed for was Lara Croft. But together with Disney Channel we came to realise that this is an interesting character and a fun character, but not a very real character. That’s where we really pushed the designers into the direction of “let’s make her look like a real 14-year-old girl” that she’s not some ‘bombshell’, she’s just this pretty girl who’s athletic.[/quote]
Kim's original design was a blonde and they purposely designed her to be a pretty girl, but not a bombshell.
The source is an interview in the German magazine Televizion. The English version can be found at http://www.br-online.de/jugend/izi/english/publication/televizion/21_2008_E/schooley_eng.pdf
- This article is also the one that makes me think that most of the problems with Ron in the fourth season was due to executive interference.
- Because, the statement of, "Over the course of the seasons, the one feed- back that we consistently got from boys was they did want to see Ron succeed a little more, so heading into season 4 we let him develop and be- come more confident so he wasn’t always messing up." There is almost no way that writers as creative as Bob and Mark went from that statement to what we got in season four where Ron was pretty much *always* messing up. Is it any wonder that Bob and Mark finished KP on a Friday and started at Nick on the following Monday?
I often hear or read that Kim is a secret agent or spy, and I think that Disney even promoted her as such on some merchandise, but I have a real problem with that. Very little of what Kim does could be construed as secret agent or spy.
Both of these entail a certain amount of covertness and a lot of undercover or intelligence gathering work. Kim does very little of any of this. In fact, I can count on one hand how many instances I can think of right now where Kim actually goes undercover or simply gathers information.
What Kim is more like is a private detective or mercenary.
That being said, should we eliminate the phrase "secret agent" from Kim's page?
Kim is world renowned and her exploits in papers and magazines. She is far from "secret" despite having been tapped as a resource by the Global Justice Network, themselves less than secret.
She's not "mercenary" as the point was made that *she* did things for free (presuming no one else about her, like Wade or her parents, accepted monies into a trust for her. A nice fanon, but tis not canon), and she has rarely been tapped as a detective despite putting to use strong deductive reasonings.
Early on Kim's missions were the result of hits on her website, but that really petered off as Wade began more proactively watching her foes' actions.
If Kim is *anything*, she is a vigilante. Unless there are unseen contracts Wade has accepted in her name for various labs and such, Kim's missions usually start by being told something is going down by one of her Rogues Gallery and she butts her nose into it on her own. At best her missions start out in one direction before leading her to the villains.
That is why I said that she is more like a mercenary not that she is a mercenary. And yes, vigilante is a correct term, but she is also very often contacted and asked to retrieve some stolen item. Whether she gets paid or not this is something that a private detective, mercenary, or "security consultant" would do.
- I also thought about it this morning and at times Kim acts like a bounty hunter, who isn't as concerned with collecting the bounty as with putting the wanted person back behind bars.
- I think freelance heroine and vigilante are the two best terms to cover everything that Kim does. "Freelance heroine" fits pretty much everything she does, from babysitting to world-saving. And it also includes that she is good-natured, can be hired to act as a detective or bounty-less hunter for example, and that she's paid in favors. "Vigilante" highlights both that no agency empowers her, and that typical law enforcement is ill-equipped to deal with the bad guys she does. Also that violence is her chief way of stopping them, not that she really has a choice since she has no authority. The only real hang-up is that Kim seems to be an accepted vigilante, since the law isn't pursuing her and she even has military and police contacts.
- That said, I notice that "secret agent" is still in the overview for some reason. While I won't argue that she can be hired to gather intelligence on certain people, I still think that falls under the many roles she can be requested to fill, and is therefore covered by freelance heroine. In fact, I think it's a better idea to just list all the roles she has ever filled under Abilities, if no one has an objection. That seems the easiest way to showcase what she has done and is capable of. - Dap00 21:55, February 16, 2013 (UTC)
Dap00, that sounds like a good idea. Kim's article needs a ton of work.
- I've started going through transcripts looking for past adventures that Ron and people granting favors mentioned in passing. I suspect that's where the bulk of the less obvious stuff will come from. But I used "espionage agent" instead of "secret agent". Almost everyone Kim could be convinced to spy on was at least suspected of wrongdoing, but if any of those people actually did catch her, 9 times out of 10 they'd know her name, address, and typical hang-out spots, so it feels wrong to label that as secret anything. - Dap00 12:24, February 17, 2013 (UTC)
Since when is Kim's skin ruddy? It's Caucasian.
- Replied in Forum:Kim Possible Article.
dr-fan/mai-lover kimposslibe-in-uworth-of-s5-bscuse-kimposslibe,s-ego-porb beides-kimposslbe-maitike-that-cood-back-fire-on-kimposslibe&ron-kimposslibe-relize-on-reusfs boy-kimposslibe-makes-inspctorgatdet-samrt so-i-put-you
dr-fan/mai-lover this-my-mjor-perb-waith-it,s-ego who-the-hell-ron-does-thinking-bey-bering-refuse-it,s-angast-reauls yaers-kp&ron-valliny-all-over-the-palnit than-kimposslibe-apoofed-for-you-gaite-kp,s-helpe to-top-it-off to-heple-booine-sarroy-kp^ron-fix-booine-jr-jr-is-quick-fix if-ask-me
Kim and Ron *did* elect to help Bonnie find a new love interest. However, ignoring this is what the Writers chose to do with Bonnie and Jr and staying in-universe, thing is when 2 people are attracted to each other, it is out of the hands of everyone else. While Kim coulda/shoulda at least pointed out Jr was a criminal, fact remains that his money would have blinded her anyway.
Now, all that said, *I* cling to the Graduation closing credits scene where "Bonnie" morphs into Camille as proof Bonnie and Jr are not together. *I personally* do not like the idea of them together and feel Bonnie deserves better.
I'm just curious. On Ron's page it has Kim as a love interest in S3 and S4. On this page it just has Kim as a love interest in S4. I didn't edit it cause i figured there must be a reason for that. But looking at the rules i can't put my finger on it. This is a small thing that jumped out on the character pages. Thanks for any clarification as to what this is. I sort of get the argument Ron wasn't a love interest in S3 to Kim but in that case Kim wasn't one to Ron in S3 either. I guess what jumped out to me is i think it should just be S4 for both. Slicknickshady (talk) 05:04, August 20, 2013 (UTC)
- A good point, my friend.
- I think it is mostly a case of the two pages not yet synced to their common information. Editors often come along and add something to one article but not to others which might-maybe-should reflect the same point. In addition, we are still in the process of upgrading articles into compliance with the Manual of Syle, so some are lagging others.
- FWIW, it may be someone once viewed Ron's introspection and decision in Emotion Sickness as *he* deciding Kim was his love interest, and frankly, that does happen in RL where a person becomes interested in another first. Then again, Although a "movie", since StD was the season3/then-series finale, BOTH Kim and Ron should be considered as love interests in S3… dating in S4, but interests at the end of S3. Though I can see where 1 dance and kiss in the last 2 minutes of the last episode at the end of a season, compared to the entire next season, could be confuzzling to many. Especially as in RL, 1 dance and kiss do not a "couple" make…
- I'd like to hear the thoughts of others on this.
- I think you make good points as well. Really, it's a small thing. And to touch on one thing you said, this place is really informative so i never find really anything missing. I do think character pages should be synched to common information but i figured something like you mentoned,,,upgrading of articles was happening soon and i figured this was a discussion that could be had.
- Emotion Sickness was interesting and i still really have no idea how i view it. Obviously what was going on was real to Ron cause he didn't know till near the end that it was mind control. So his reactions prior was based on faulty data. If anything, it might have planted the seed that he ended up refuting in the episode.
- IMO that episode didn't signify Kim as a love interest. Anymore then the episode later on "Bad Boy" did. I was thinking about the point you brought up with "So The Drama". Though a movie it was basically like three episodes. So having S3 and S4 when as you said S3 was only like two minutes of them being together.
- I guess my final thoughts is they should be the same. The love interest time frame should be the same. But thats just me. I can just easily see other arguments like Kim was a LI to Ron before Ron was to Kim. I don't agree personally with that argument but in Canon it is debatable.
- As i mentioned this is just a small thing to think about. And all this could be as simple as someone editing one of these pages love interests columns to something different then the other.
- Thanks for the response. All the pages i frequent looks good to me.
- First, it shouldn't be in each of their articles individually. It should be on the Kim and Ron's relationship article, with a link to this article on each of Kim and Ron's articles.
- Second, it should read third and fourth season. While, So the Drama was a made for TV movie it is part of season three, and the exact length of time in season three isn't really important. They were each other's love interest at some point during season three.
- At least that is my take on it.
Look, it’s 5 years later now... haha. I really do think it should both be synced. Rather it’s just S4 or S3, S4.. I don’t care. It’s just so odd at least to me that both pages are different. The pages are locked to make changes and I don’t think that’s a bad idea. I just wish we could get these two pages on the same wavelength. They were both each other’s love interest for the same length of time. Why I have not contributed much to this wiki is because the people in charge here do a great job. This one thing just continues to bug me.
- The main issue against either being S3 is that implies the entirety of season three when, if anything, it was only the final 3 minutes of S3. Something a quick stop at infoboxes will not properly explain.
- I agree with Knopp's assessment that it should be addressed in full on their Relationship page with a link to it placed on both Kim and Ron's pages. Love Robin (talk) 14:29, August 14, 2018 (UTC)
What episode of American Dragon: Jake Long did Kim make a cameo in.
- Neither Kim herself nor any of the Kim Possible characters made an appearance in American Dragon, Jake Long.
- HOWEVER, in the ADJL season 1 Halloween episode, two girls wearing Middleton High School cheerleader outfits appeared. Not just girls wearing costumes because Jake specifically called them cheerleaders getting along side-by-side with magical creatures. Thus a fraction of fandom believes them to have been MHS cheerleaders visiting NYC. A possibility as there have been around 40 some girls wearing MHS cheer uniforms in KP. --Love Robin (talk) 04:46, April 30, 2018 (UTC)
What episode of American Dragon, Jake Long was Kim seen fighting a clone robot.
- None. Kim Possible never made an appearance in ADJL. Love Robin (talk) 08:15, November 21, 2018 (UTC)
Why is this page and the Ron Stoppable page locked?
I mean I don’t get.
- These two pages were temporarily locked about a week ago because of an edit war over their ages. The lock will expire in about a week.
- --Love Robin (talk) 19:44, August 18, 2018 (UTC)
- Good cause I only want to fix one thing. Add a link to the Kim and Ron relationship page under Ron’s name under love interest. Cause on the reverse page.. Ron’s. There is a link to the relationship page under Kim’s name. I’m not messing with the side. Even though I still think both should be S3, and S4.. or just S4.
- Slicknickshady (talk) 21:16, August 18, 2018 (UTC)
I think it’s best if I only talk Canon and not Fanon with you. Unless we’re talking canon, I just can’t talk Bob and Mark with you or Ron’s fitness as a partner with you. We just won’t agree. The only thing I’ll apoligze for is not assuming good faith on the edits here on the wikia. I truly feel Ron is shortchanged. But I have talked to other admins on other wikias here who are impartial and they see nothing wrong with the way you do things. If anything they think you and I may just disagree on how much info needs to be included. Not that they think the stuff I want added is wrong. It is canon. Just that is really all that info necessary on character pages. So outsiders think that..
A) You and I should have good faith discussion when it comes to certain additions. They really think our debate comes down to how much Word of God should be used in articles. I agree with the manual that it should be under trivia. My issue is the citations are harder and harder to find nowadays rather on the RS board or stuff creators said at conventions. I’ve seen comments from you that acknowledge that.
Under trivia I think it should be acknowledged that the creators have said Kim and Ron were always meant to be together and will be together forever. I’ve never seen you dispute that btw. I just have a feeling you would. They said that at the gargoyles convention pre S4.
I can promise you won’t see any more tweets or DA comments from me.
- Understand this. I KNOW Canon. On this wiki I WILL safeguard Canon. However, because our goal is to write this wikia not only from an In-Universe Perspective but also with objective neutrality. That means without interjecting personal viewpoints.
- Also understand that means ON THE MAIN PAGES. Talk, Forums, Blogs and personal pages allow for farther ranging discussions. So there *I*—and anyone else—are free to MENTION our personal thoughts and perspectives so long as they stay off the Main pages.
- Believe it or not, I, too have had conversations with the creators. Significantly Schooley more than McCorkle. I *know* that K/R was always their objective, and I've long I accepted that. BUT. AS A WRITER. I like to explore the other angles. I believe I've told you this before. I could easily write stories which not only stick to canon, but could potentially be used by the show. BUT, just as some like to write AUs, I like to explore other avenues.
- Please also take strong note, *I* do not go around and try to FORCE MY THOUGHTS on others. I DO NOT try to "change their 'religion'". I respect everyone's preferences. Yes, I'll discuss and debate, but people have to COME TO ME to do so; comment on my work or my posts directed to others.
- Now. So long as you keep all that mess away from this wiki, the Kim Possible Fanon Wiki, and do not cause problems on other wikis—or any other non-wiki sites—I administrate or moderate, *YOU and I* will be okay. I'm not saying do not visit or contribute to any of them, just do so without flames and arguments.
- For the past 5 years, I had thought you and I had reached a level of civil equilibrium. I'm saddened it got derailed in this unnecessary fashion.
- --Love Robin (talk) 15:08, August 19, 2018 (UTC)
Just synched two things. Thats all. Two things that were on the Ron page that were not on here. Link to the Relationship page, And the same season of love interest in dating box. Seasons 3 and 4. If you would rather they both be So The Drama and Season 4 then by all means change them both to that. Slicknickshady (talk) 19:40, August 26, 2018 (UTC)
Nemisis vs Enemies
How is it possible to have Shego be an Enemy for Ron but only a Nemisis of Kim? They are either Nemisis for both or Enemies for both. It seems to be you are against having Shego portrayed as an Enemy because it messes with you're fanon. But i'm not going to worry about that. I do belive it should be the same for both Kim and Ron. Nemisis of both. Enemy of both. Whatever. Kim and Ron are a team. Shego is the same to both of them. Slicknickshady (talk) 19:52, August 26, 2018 (UTC)
- I am not the one behind these two terms. Frankly, Ron is hardly ever on Shego's radar, so she is hardly his "nemesis". As for being "the same to both of them"… Really? Does Shego *ever* pause in heated battle to have a nearly pleasant conversation with Ron like she does with Kim? No.
- --Love Robin (talk) 20:29, August 26, 2018 (UTC)
Good to know. I'm gonna just leave it for now. I don't mind if the term is Nemisis. If thats whats used i just think it should be for both. I realize these pages are meant to be brief. So you are not going to say everything about every single interaction they ever had. The differences though stand out to me. If they are a team which according to the top panel here they are. I would think they were pose the oppisition the same. When i look at both definitions. They both fit. Enemy and Nemisis. So if you don't have a problem ill change the one on Ron's page to nemisis when it comes to shego instead of Enemy. I'm more concerned about consistency then the slight difference between the definitions of Enemy and Nemisis. The actions in the finale Graduation i believe can move Drakken and Shego to Nemisis instead of Enemy. So i have no been convinced that Nemisis does fit. But prior to Graduation i don't. But since this is where canon is now. Nemisis works. This issue is solved. If you wanted to change Ron's page to reflect Drakken and Shego as his nemisis instead of Enemy. Go ahead. If not ill do it later if ok. Slicknickshady (talk) 20:56, August 26, 2018 (UTC)